Forum Gripe thread.

**ScottH** · 25-05-2010, 07:40 PM

[GRIPE]
I want to see more blood shed in threads.
There is too much "great shot, mate", "well done". (Much like I do

).

I know people like to post positive comments/crits, but sometimes we need to hear "You're pic is

", well, OK, not that harsh.

It's a bit of a love fest ATM.

Or is it just me?

(OK maybe not blood shed, but a bit of honest criticism, you get the idea.)

[/GRIPE]

**Cookster670** · 25-05-2010, 07:46 PM

Game on Scott ! Post one up.....go on.....I dare ya ! ;-)

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**Maz** · 25-05-2010, 08:06 PM

I have to say that I agree with Scott. I feel that perhaps some people are afraid of giving more in-depth critique, which may be due to a number of reasons. For myself, the reasons may be because:

- There is nothing in the image that mildly interests me, so to be polite I say nothing
- I am worried that I come across as nit-picky
- I don't want to spend time giving my honest opinion if OP isn't really interested in receiving a critique
- I am biased towards certain photographic/PP styles, so if I offer a personal opinion, OP might take it the wrong way

However, I also feel that if a person posts an image on a public forum for viewing, it should be expected that both positive and negative comments be taken on board.

Here is an article that may be of interest: http://www.naturephotographers.net/je1001-1.html

**rpo83** · 25-05-2010, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by cookster670

game on scott ! Post one up.....go on.....i dare ya ! ;-)

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What he said..... ROFL

**rpo83** · 25-05-2010, 08:10 PM

Maybe as an idea, if the thread starter wants constructive critisism, it could be noted in the thread title.

**ScottH** · 25-05-2010, 08:32 PM

I think the key thing in being critical is doing it politely, without say "It's crap". I had a go at another forum owner for saying just that.
But it can be little things, "It's crooked" "The bikini girl is not hot enough", etc.

Time is a big thing. In the link marianne posted, it mentions taking the time to evaluate the image. I'm in for a quick squizz, if I feel I can add something of value, I'll mention it.
I feel a bit awkward being the 20th poster in the thread to say "great shot".

OK. Cookster and rpo83, looks like the challenge is on!!
I'll see what I can find.

**Cookster670** · 25-05-2010, 08:32 PM

In all honesty. I think the level of c&c has been ok. I have called out things I don't like (respectfully). And have had the same done back to me.

If however it doesn't interest me I say nothing. A low number of reponses is also a form of critique

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**loose cannon** · 25-05-2010, 08:37 PM

I hear what you are saying, and I'm as guilty as anyone, but in the short time I've been hanging around tog forums I have noticed that there are some sensitive souls about. I mean REALLY sensitive. It's tricky to be blunt on the internet as the lack of body language makes it difficult to communicate effectively, especially for an uneducated slob like myself.

I post on a few different forums where there are no restrictions other than personal attacks. If you have sensitive skin these are not good places to be but I love them.

I've got skin like a rhino and am up for whatever anybody wants to throw at me. I've taken on board what you have said so look out everyone.

I'll have a crack at stepping up the cc a level and see how many toes I can tread on.

**ScottH** · 25-05-2010, 08:47 PM

I'm the same loose cannon, if I really like a pic, and someone says something I don't agree with, I'll sulk for a minute or too then thank then for being honest. But generally hit me with you best shot.
I think most of my shots are average when I compare to others.
I've seen other people who are quite humble, when praised as they feel their work is not up to scratch, while others rave about it.
People are usually more critical with their own work than others.
Others also see things that we may not see.

Any check the new posts, I've risen to the challenge. Now I'll run and hide till tmrw, so I can think of some new abuse to hurl back at youse nasty peoples!!!

**loose cannon** · 25-05-2010, 10:10 PM

And we can't wait till you post something Scott, you're a marked man

lol.

**aslan** · 25-05-2010, 11:18 PM

Bring it on Scott

I am personally a lover of Harsh C&C..........my "homeless" thread on APF got ripped to shreds. It just made me go back and do some proper PP with a far better end result.

On the other hand, there really hasn't been an explosion of crap pictures here, so opportunities are limited

**caralan** · 26-05-2010, 01:01 AM

Good topic Scott,

Is it time for the Honeymoon to end here?

I think we all know why this forum was started - and I believe it's stated aim was to be a friendly, sharing and compassionate place to share our passion of photography with others of like minds.

But as Simon says in the rules ..."We are all here to learn and teach each other"

But people can only learn if they are willing to accept critical comments - and you can only learn if someone else has the confidence to put forward suggestions/comments - as hard as that may be for people new to the process. Not that I think people here are reluctant to offer advice, thankfully.

I refer to Marianne's excellent link..

I have been guilty of the "wow - that's great" comment, but I mostly try to say why I like or dislike a photo, and if so, how I think it could be improved, with my limited knowledge - it just seems fair if people take the interest and time to do the same for me - which I appreciate - how else am I going to learn or move to the next level?

I don't want to keep posting stuff that I think is fine, when it's bleedingly obvious, to someone not emotionally attached to the image, that there are faults that need addressing.

I can see where Cookster and Maz are coming from when they say..

"If however it doesn't interest me I say nothing. A low number of reponses is also a form of critique"

"There is nothing in the image that mildly interests me, so to be polite I say nothing"

I think my sig echoes their thoughts, but it's not really helpful to the poster. Guilty as charged also

Steve, I think that if you put pics up here, it's a given that you are open to CC - I don't think we have a
"not for comment" section?

I another Forum, the challenge was put out to select an image and write several 100 words really analysing that image.

Maybe something to think about..

Thanks for the interesting post

Cheers

**kevinj** · 26-05-2010, 04:21 AM

I always try to be honest,if I read 5 Great Pic comments,but the pic is soft,I will say so,if it`s a nice pic,I will say that also,but,beware the "BUT",because that`s when the critique comes in.I would never say a pic is crap,but,will say why it`s crap,IMO of course.

**Shaddsi** · 26-05-2010, 07:51 AM

Ok a bit of movement on this one as it seems to be a problem that everyone has on various levels. Thanks Scott for bringing it up. A new forum has been created called "Pick it to Pieces".

This is for some serious Constructive criticism. If it ends up with members flaming each other, the mods might need to bring out the naughty stick.

Check it here http://www.ausph.com/forumdisplay.ph...k-It-To-Pieces

**ScottH** · 26-05-2010, 07:58 AM

Cheers Simon. I wasn't thinking along the lines of a new forum, but hey why not!!

I also don't condone flaming, but don't mind people saying it like it is.

Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.

So have you picked mine to pieces yet??
I'll go and look.

**LJG** · 26-05-2010, 08:04 AM

Alan, well said.

This problem raises its head every so often. Like most I'm guilty of not giving constructive comment. Also like most I'm not overly comfortable in giving it.

If I'd been a avid togger for years and years and knew more, I would feel better about giving constructive criticism. If a shot does not appeal to me I usually just bypass it without comment.

I think the threads that go without answer speaks volumes about this. You'll see 20 or so views, but no replies. That usually tells the poster all he needs to know.

I will say, I don't think there is enough constructive criticism on the other forum where we came from, but maybe we should take lessons on the one that is further removed (or earlier removed) as some of the CC there really is helpful.

I have it in my sig that I really want CC, I don't get offended easily and want to improve my hobby. My enemy is time to go out shooting

**Jcas** · 26-05-2010, 08:24 AM

I post and comment as i see things, i was disappointed the other day to see an image removed after i commented on what i thought wasn't right with it, my comments were not harsh but they spoke for me as i viewed it.

Everybody else that commented liked the image, but i spoke what i seen as the truth for me and the next thing i knew it was removed which was a shame as others would have enjoyed viewing it.

I think as posters we have to ask ourselves if we are prepared to accept all comments on our work even the comments we won't like.

**ScottH** · 26-05-2010, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Jcas

I post and comment as i see things, i was disappointed the other day to see an image removed after i commented on what i thought wasn't right with it, my comments were not harsh but they spoke for me as i viewed it.

Everybody else that commented liked the image, but i spoke what i seen as the truth for me and the next thing i knew it was removed which was a shame as others would have enjoyed viewing it.

I think as posters we have to ask ourselves if we are prepared to accept all comments on our work even the comments we won't like.

Ooh Julie, you must be very nasty!!

You are right if you don't want to hear criticism, don't post in the first place.

Nice point Lloyd about the pics with no replies, but sometimes it would be nice to know what others think.
That's why we post up our best pics, to have our ego stroked, but if it is not as good as we thought, please tell us.

I found it very frustrating on APF, that I'd get 50 views and no replies. Some of them were my best and fav pics.
(Julie did comment on some of them. Maybe she's not that nasty after all)

**Jcas** · 26-05-2010, 08:40 AM

(Julie did comment on some of them. Maybe she's not that nasty after all)

Thanks Scott that's so comforting...

Actually i would be guilty of the nice pic comments too, especially when it comes to animal pics as i have trouble seeing a
not nice animal, that is near impossible for me ..

But i do try and express my views in as nice a way as i can and would hope i never speak out of line, if i ever become a nasty old bugger you all have permission to ban me ..